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Regular "pentation"? - Printable Version

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RE: Regular "pentation"? - mike3 - 05/07/2010

(05/07/2010, 03:17 AM)andydude Wrote: I think I finally understand what you're talking about here. There is an interval that plays the same role in pentation as plays in tetration. I talked about the upper bound of this interval here, but whether or not there is a lower bound to this interval is unknown.

Yes, without an extension to real/complex heights for for tetration, determining the lower bound (if any) does not seem possible.


pentation? (Based on "polynomial" tetration) - Gottfried - 03/29/2011

[update:] after I've written the following I got aware, that this should be better threaded under something like "polynomial tetration/pentation" since the basic powerseries for the tetration as I used it here was derived from the "polynomial tetration" using the diagonalization of the truncated real (square) Bellmatrix and its diagonalization - *not* of the triangular Bellmatrix of the regular tetration

While usually I handle the tetration having a series which has the height-parameter in the exponents of its single terms, I played a bit around with a powerseries-representation, and especially a powerseries-epansion for b^^h for b=4 and beginning at x=0 (instead of x=1 as usual). So that powerseries gives b^^0 = 0, b^^1=1,b^^2=4 and so on. Obviously that powerseries has no constant term. It begins like
PHP Code:
b^^h0.938409102074*0.167927302891*h^0.287554406742*h^0.151567019585*h^+... 
and for instance for b^^0.5 = 0.457214343478 .

Having a powerseries without constant term cries for iteration, so this allows to implement pentation to base 4 as an iteration of the current powerseries. Moreover, I have then a two-parametric formula (as usually in x and h in exp_b°h(x) if base b is fixed).
If I set x=1 and p="pentation-height"=1 I get the tetration beginning at 0 with height 1 (which gives 1) and this "iterated 1 time". If I iterate this 2 times, I get the following powerseries
PHP Code:
((b^^h)^^^exp_4°h(0))^^^0.880611642856*0.305463247599*h^0.560396635817*h^0.482701855960*h^+... 
and for h=1 I evaluate this to the value 1. Surprisingly. That means, if I "iterate the tetration from 0 to 1" one time I get 1 and if I do this 2 times, I get still 1 and this comes out for all iterations/pentation-heights.

Hmm. Again, if I tetrate 0 to the height 1/2 I get
PHP Code:
b^^0.5 0.457214343478 
. This is done 1 time, so the p=1.

If I "do it two times" (???), p=2 I arrive at
PHP Code:
(b^^0.5)^^^0.417108029167 
. if I "do it 1/2 times" I get
PHP Code:
(b^^0.5)^^^0.5 0.478298158357 



Undecided Does someone have a pentation-implementation which could provide comparable/concurring values? Well, you may see: I'm not even feeling that I understood what that computation (and the change of that parameters) tells me conceptually at all...

Gottfried


RE: pentation? (Based on "polynomial" tetration) - BenStandeven - 04/04/2011

(03/29/2011, 09:50 AM)Gottfried Wrote: [update:] after I've written the following I got aware, that this should be better threaded under something like "polynomial tetration/pentation" since the basic powerseries for the tetration as I used it here was derived from the "polynomial tetration" using the diagonalization of the truncated real (square) Bellmatrix and its diagonalization - *not* of the triangular Bellmatrix of the regular tetration

While usually I handle the tetration having a series which has the height-parameter in the exponents of its single terms, I played a bit around with a powerseries-representation, and especially a powerseries-epansion for b^^h for b=4 and beginning at x=0 (instead of x=1 as usual). So that powerseries gives b^^0 = 0, b^^1=1,b^^2=4 and so on. Obviously that powerseries has no constant term. It begins like
PHP Code:
b^^h0.938409102074*0.167927302891*h^0.287554406742*h^0.151567019585*h^+... 
and for instance for b^^0.5 = 0.457214343478 .

That isn't going to give the standard version of pentation, then. You're iterating b^^(x-1) instead of b^^x.